Post by Fadril Adren on Dec 7, 2016 18:12:30 GMT -5
The Ninth Realm is a Warhammer Age of Sigmar podcast produced by Frontline Gaming (of F.A.T. Mat fame and organizers of the Las Vegas Open War Game Convention) and is created by world renown Warhammer 40K players and tournament officials, Reece Robbins and Frankie Giampapa. They recently tried a game of Age of Sigmar as demo'd by one of Frontline's staff and became hooked.
In Episode #21, Reece interviews a die-hard Warhammer 40K player, Ben Mohlie and discuss the differences between the two games, and some of the reasons people are converting over.
This is such a GREAT podcast episode full of very non-biased thoughts and comments regarding Age of Sigmar, the attraction to the game, how tournament capable it can be, low entry barriers, and overall fun to play without bashing 40K. The following are some excerpts from the show:
Reece: "Today we have a very special guest from 40K but now is dipping his toe into Age of Sigmar. Ben, it's nice to have you on the show. Thank you for joining us."
Ben: "Thank you Reece. It's good to be here."
Reece: "Absolutely. So Ben and I are friends as well as fellow hobbyists and we talk time to time on various things on the hobby and live in general. Ben reached out to me and said he was getting into Age of Sigmar and I was "Hey, that's awesome." and from your initial email you sounded very pleased with these first steps into the game. And I was like "Hey, that would be an awesome topic for a show because you are what I call a hard-core 40K player. You're a travelling tournament player... an accomplished tournament player. You have a lot of insights to the mechanics of the game. You're also a good hobbyist. So I thought this would be a great show. There are a lot of people out there listening to The Ninth Realm that are primarily 40K players and they are curious on Age of Sigmar and your perspective would help them make a decision to either get into the game or not."
Ben: "Right. Happy to give my perspective. And yeah, I've only played a handful of games so I don't understand the game very well but I like it and really enjoyed it thus far."
Reece: "I've played 15 games, 20 games at this point so I'm just starting to understand the more complex strategies of the game and I've been delighted to find the depth of the game is there. A lot of tactical depth. Even more I thought there was at first. And I am pleased with that. It just lacks, I would say, the cumbersome complexity of 40K that it has at this time. So Ben, what appealed to you about Age of Sigmar. And your initial reaction to the game when it came out a little over a year ago?"
Ben: "Yeah, so I mean the initial reaction to the game when it came out I think was mocking. All the 40K players were like "haha. Those Fantasy guys like have no points" and what not and had no interest in it because the base rule book was good if you were just playing in your garage, right? but it's really hard to have an even game because there were no points costs. It was hard to balance two armies. It was just you and your buddy.
The General's Handbook really changed all that. When it dropped I didn't pay it any attention.. like it wasn't even on my radar, you know. But a couple months ago, a good friend of mine, Bill Sousa, was sorta dabbling into it and said "dude, you gotta check this out". And I got a copy of the General's Handbook and read through it and was like "Oh WOW! This looks really good!" And you know what you were just talking about is a good place to start about the tactical depth.
My first impression, certainly reading the base rules, was there was only 4 pages of rules. You read it in 5 minutes and think like "oh this game must be so boring compared to 40K because it's so simple". But once you get into the complexities of the warscrolls, and the legience abilities now, relics, etc. It's just like you mentioned that there is incredible tactical depth there. At the same time a really simple game to play which is a very unique combination. And so that's what really impressed me the most with initial, you know, because I'm already getting the appreciation for how.. I can see the potential for scuffle play there. I'm certainly not there yet with this game. But it's obvious once you dabbled in it at all and you've been to the top tables in other miniatures games, whether it's 40K or anything else, you can tell when you read the rule set and the different abilities and combos, spells, and what-not you can start to put it together in your head. You can do some heinous stuff. It's a great combination because while there are extremely powerful combos and really neat ways to combine your units, because of the basic lack of durability stat, toughness - anything can hurt anything, it means you can pretty much play with any model you want and be alright.
You know, it's not the case in 40K where "oh, I really like guys with plasguns. And your opponent brings 5 Knights. And you're like oh well, thanks for coming out guys". (laughs)
And that goes a long way because that means that any unit is never useless. Even if it's not all buffed up and synergized as another list. You can still hurt their stuff which is a fundamental difference from the way 40K is, at least right now."
Reece: " I agree with you 100%. No game should have a situation where... a game is played for pleasure or competition should not have a situation where one model or unit, or any aspect of the game, can't interact with another. Unless it's a short-term or one-time thing like I've said over and over where a Feat in Warmachine where your warcaster goes invincible for one turn is perfectly acceptable because most players can plan around it. But when it's a perpetual symptom, It's bad. It's bad game design. And Age of Sigmar does not have that. And like you noted, anything can hurt anything - it makes the games really fast. It means that anyone can pick any model off the shelf at their game store. Buy it. Put it together. Paint it. And it won't be terrible. It may not be good. It may not be an efficient choice. But it will be able to participate meaningfully in a game. And I think that's brilliant about Age of Sigmar."
Ben: "Yeah I agree 100%. I mean in terms of barriers to entry, that's a huge one. Everyone gets into games because they think the models looks cool and they like the backstory etc. and that's where everybody starts. There are very few who starts on the competitive virtues of its ruleset or what not. You see something that looks cool, you're like "ok, let's try it out" and then then could be the immediate buzkill where the guys you want to play with are actually terrible. Which happens all the time (laughs) especially if the game is as complex as 40K because it's really hard to learn how to build an army initially and a lot of the units are just real garbage. So yeah, Sigmar has that advantage where no matter how you pick into it, get an army you think is cool and you'll be able to win some games with it. It may not be tournament winning. But you're going to have fun with your buddies and not feel like you wasted your money."
It was a brilliant business move [restarting Fantasy and wiping it clean]. I think it showed some real guts to do something completely different. And I think this is going to prove to be a huge deal for the company. Because I actually think the growth potential for Age of Sigmar is a lot more than 40K right now because of that complexity we talked about [barrier of entry for Sigmar is now less than 40K]. 40K is a huge playerbase and it's doing really well. 40K sales are great. But I think the set of the people that could realistically get into Age of Sigmar, really enjoy it and buy and army is a lot higher with Sigmar than it is with 40K because there are just lower barriers to entry to just more parts of the gaming population are actually in their target market. It was a brilliant move on so many levels.
But I don't want this conversation to be a 40K bashing. I mean, I still love 40k. Lets be clear, like, I'm not selling my 40K stuff or anything. It's an amazing game. The reason I'm enjoying this, you mentioned eariler, I'm actually considering playing [Age of Sigmar] instead of 40K is because in 40K right now, it's really really hard to make an all-comers list. I think that term is common across many games, Sigmar or 40K. And because of the complexity in 40K, and not just the rules complexity, but just the number of different armies you can take. It's almost impossible to have just one force that you can bring on and beat anytihing. You almost have to specialize and then it's a rock-paper-scissors thing. And what that means is if you're trying to win a tournament it's really frustrating because you win 5 games and then you'll get a 6th game where you have no chance of winning whatsoever. And that's just no fun for anyone involved. And that's why at the tournament level, [Age of Sigmar] is appealing in that it's not the case here. That's cool and that's a fundamental appeal."
Reece: "Yeah. You touch on a number of really good points. You and I are kind of sympatico in that we both like to play take on all comers, or TAC, armies. [....] ones that are not necessarily the most powerful but is the most flexible. And we have similar playstyles and list building strategies in that way. And I agree 100% that Age of Sigmar does lend itself towards that and it appealing to high level players."
This is the first 11 minutes worth of Age of Sigmar views from a 40K player. The podcast is only 40 more minutes and both Reece and Ben touch on many good topics, likes, dislikes, pros, cons, and so much more!
So, if you are a war gamer and curious about Age of Sigmar or if you are a 40K player, I think you'll really benefit from listening to this. The link to download the podcast episode is at the top!
- Fadril